Talk:Super Saiyan Second grade
ASCENDED SUPER SAIYAN Vegeta and Trunks don't use this form during the Cell Game and versus Borjack, they are just Super Saiyan. Ascended Super Saiyan is used versus Semi-Perfect Cell/Perfect Cell from Vegeta and Trunks and in the OAV Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan. That's true (well, except for maybe for the Vegeta vs. Bojack battle, since his saiyan armor stretches to accomidate a new form.), I mean, in "Broly, the Legendary Super Saiyan", Trunks obviously went Ascended Super Saiyan (as he was the only one out of the Super Saiyans that fought Broly in Round 1 that had his jacket torn apart as he transformed, and he didn't tear apart his jacket when he transformed into an SSJ both during the battle with Tien and his fight against Kogu.) Merging of ASSj and USSj I would much rather have the Ultra and Ascended Super Saiyan articles merged into one. '-- bulletproof' 08:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC) :Why? Both are two completely different transformations, unlike the SSj and FPSSj which both are the same. --[[User:Dranzer Neos|'N'e'o's']] 10:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC) ::Exactly but the Daizenshuu seems to describe both ''ichi-dankai no henshin or "transformations of the first stage" as being one and the same, just varying levels of the same exact thing. '''-- bulletproof 04:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC) :::The Daizenshuu is right. They're both simple variants of the first stage, not actual transformations. What I meant in my previous reply was the fact they're completely different from themselves; the 2nd Grade is not the same as the 3rd Grade. They do not relate to each other but they both relate to Super Saiyan, i.e. both are offshoots of the original Super Saiyan. Unlike Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 which are completely new transformations by themselves, who don't relate to either eachother or Super Saiyan. --[[User:Dranzer Neos|'N'e'o's']] 10:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC) ::::I don't think you understand. It states that they aren't different from ''themselves at all. They are indeed a variation of Super Saiyan, but are not necessarily a variation of each other. They are one and the same and only differentiated by the names Sūpā Saiya-jin dai ni-dankai and Sûpâ Saiya-jin dai san-dankai ('''Super Saiyan 1 Stage 2 and Super Saiyan 1 Stage 3) to catalogue the only change between the two, the further increment of muscle mass to the point were agility is lost.'-- bulletproof' 03:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC) :::::Oh yeah. I checked. It does say that: "just varying levels of the same exact thing." Hmm... I guess you're right. It should be merged, under the heading 'Super Saiyan Variants' or something like that. --[[User:Dranzer Neos|'N'e'o's']] 12:34, 18 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::To me the most plausible location to merge these articles should be Super Saiyan, since the forms are just further advanced versions of this technique. Even Full-Power Super Saiyan could be merged here, as well. Storm 16:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::Eh?! Are there two Storms out there? Because the first one seemed to have remained neutral on my idea of merging SSj and FPSSj. This one's positive. Chemistry, anyone? :::::::Anyways, I don't think A/USSj should be merged with SSj. Full-Power/Mastered Super Saiyan ''is not even an actual transformation; it's simply an advancement of an earlier form. While the Ultra Super Saiyan levels are as Goku puts it in the original Japanese dialogue, '"ichi-dankai no henshin" ("transformations of the first stage").'' :::::::So, I think that FPSSJ and SSj should be merged into one article: Super Saiyan, while ASSj and USSj should be under a different article called Stages of Super Saiyan, or something of the sort. --[[User:Dranzer Neos|'N'e'o's']] 17:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::::Well I was neutral on the topic, but if a merge is actually going to happen then I figure it wouldn't hurt to give my opinion. Wouldn't it be easier to just have a "Stages of Super Saiyan" section in the Super Saiyan article, detailing the different sub-stages? I've made a quick layout of what I mean at the wiki's Sandbox so it can be seen in action. Storm 18:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::::Yeah, I agree, The article seems more fit, and why not make ASS,USS and FPSS etc redirecting to the part in the article that is FPSS etc.-- 18:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. It's just a suggestion, but seeing practically applied, I think it could be an appropriate solution. Storm 20:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree with Sk. And I made a few headline changes at the Sandbox. I think it looks better that way and is a bit more readable. Anyone agrees? --[[User:Dranzer Neos|'Ne'o's]] 20:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)